In a moment we’ll get some advice from the Afghan Ambassador Omar Samad. His country experienced its own post war elections and Canada played a role there, but first Ambassador Howar Ziad joins me this morning from our studio in Ottawa.

Host: Mr. Ziad Good morning, congratulations on your appointment.
Mr. Ziad: Thank you very much

Host: now you’re hoping to accomplish a lot. What role would you like to see Canada play in Iraq’s scheduled elections next month?
Mr. Ziad: Well as Canada has a great record of peace keeping and humanitarian activities, we think Canada can play a positive role in our forthcoming elections as it is the first free election scheduled in the history of the Iraqi state. It’s a very important event not only for Iraq but for the whole Middle East and the international community. So by lending its support to the election process, it will be a great positive effort.

Host: What have Federal officials been telling you about the possibility of sending Canadian observers for that election?
Mr. Ziad: Well, I haven’t had direct negotiations as far as this is concerned, but we are in touch with all the organisations, for example the electoral organisation and then we are you know, gently consulting with all the parties here.

Host: And would you like that, would you like Canadian observers?
Mr. Ziad: Oh very much so.

Host: Now the security situation is very chaotic. What kind of guarantees would the Iraqi government be able to provide for Canadian observers and their safety?
Mr. Ziad: Well, when you say chaotic, there is no doubt it’s a very difficult situation as we are facing a war against those people who do not want this process to succeed, but when you say chaotic, the chaos or the actual insurgency is not in all parts of Iraq. In fact, I would suggest that eighty percent of Iraq is fairly tranquil.

Host: And let’s talk about that for a minute, because you’re from the Kurdish part of Iraq. The eighty percent that is rather peaceful, which parts of the country are we talking about?
Mr. Ziad: We are talking about, for example, Basra, Najaf, Karbala and Kuffa. That is the Shia part and then you have the Iraqi Kurdistan, a sizable part of Iraq. So the overwhelming majority of the population of those areas are for elections and are for the new democratic system of Iraq.

Host: And for the twenty percent that is still very much mired and in chaos and violence, how can elections go forward there? How difficult will it be?
Mr. Ziad: Well it’s going to be tough, there’s no doubt about it. Every effort is being made to provide security for the process, but the fact is when we say twenty percent, it’s not all the population of that twenty percent which is against the new policy in Iraq. In fact, the people who are causing this are a tiny minority supported by foreign terrorists.

Host: But the point would be that those people have a lot to gain from disrupting elections and targeting even peaceful places.
Mr. Ziad: That’s exactly their agenda. Our agenda is to promote democratic, free, open society in Iraq; theirs is for that agenda to fail.

Host: But given the security issue, would it be good if Canada is going to be sending observers? Should it send its own security forces to look after those observers or monitors?
Mr. Ziad: Well I can’t say how the contribution of Canada will be organized; it’s up to the Canadian Government really in consultation with the Iraqi authorities to arrange that.

Host: But now you’re an Iraqi authority, so is that a conversation you hope to be having in the very near future?
Mr. Ziad: Indeed. I’m open to all the topics as far as that is concerned.

Host: Now, you mentioned peacekeeping. Canada was not a member of the United States’ so called coalition of the willing in Iraq. Have you had any talks about Canada playing some kind of a peacekeeping role in the country after elections?
Mr. Ziad: Not really. First I haven’t had a chance, you know, to go into depth about policy issues, but I think that kind of thing is for obviously my Government to make a major policy initiative and then I will convey it to the Canadian Government if they wish me to do so.

Host: Now we just talked about you being from the Kurdish part of Iraq. You are part of the Kurdish minority in Iraq. Do you think your country can learn anything from Quebec special standing within Canada when it comes to Iraq’s own Kurdish minority?
Mr. Ziad: Well I am a Kurd, I am proud of my Kurdish identity. But nonetheless I represent all Iraq. This is the positive side about Iraq that all communities contribute to the new Iraq, regardless of our ethnic or religious background. But indeed the Quebec model experience or the Federal structure of Canada could be a very useful example for us in Iraq to follow, to follow a diverse system but at the same time under one state.

Host: Now the Kurdish minority had some sort of special standing. Even under Saddam Hussein. How have things changed in the North since the fall of Saddam and the war?
Mr. Ziad: Well that state wasn’t due to the fact of Saddam’s agreement. In fact, it was in spite of his traumatic regime as we know the reason why we started. Autonomy, a real self government system is because of his attack in 1991 after the first Gulf war when the allies provided us with a safe haven and the Kurds of Iraq had the opportunity to form their own self government.

Host: Are you at all concerned that Suni and Shia muslims will eventually balk at Kurdish ability to have a self-government, to still have some kind of special status.
Mr. Ziad: I’m very optimistic. In fact, I think all Iraqis have learned the lessons of the past that the only way to live together peacefully and make the country prosper is through consensus and empowering various communities in Iraq within one system of government. And I think the political forces of Iraq who adopt that progressive line of thinking are convinced of that policy.

Host: And Ambassador’s I want to get back to the elections. What concerns you most as these elections come closer?
Mr. Ziad: Well obviously the security. How are you going to provide security for the voting stations, for the voters, etc. and how do you take measures to prevent these horrific attacks against the civilian population.

Host: Well I want to invite another person into our conversation now and he’s sitting in the studio with you. Omar Samad, his homeland has undergone its own bumpy transition toward democracy in Afghanistan. He is the Afghan Ambassador to Canada. Afghanistan held its first ever presidential elections just last month and Omar Samad is with us now, good morning Mr. Ambassador.
Mr. Samad: Good morning Anna Maria.

Host: Ambassador Samad, Afghanistan held its first elections this fall, what advice do you have for Ambassador Ziad and for Iraq from the experience that Afghanistan had.
Mr. Samad: Well obviously the Ambassador and I would have to sit down and have a long lengthy chat about our experiences and how it can be useful for Iraq and the Iraqi people. There are differences between Iraq and Afghanistan. Obviously they are two different cases, they have two different histories, backgrounds. The problems that exist in Afghanistan go back to the late 1970’s and the invasion by the Soviets later followed by an internal strife, followed by a take over by terrorists, Al-Qaida, Taliban, and eventually September 11th obviously brought some changes. That event brought the attention of the world and the U.S. in particular to Afghanistan. So Iraq has a different history but I think there is a lot that we can share with the Iraqi people… I think the ultimate goal for the Iraqi people, as it is for the Afghan people, is to provide a democratic system for their people, where the will of the people will decide the fate of the country. It is also important that the country be secure and peaceful, that all components of the nation, like the Iraqi people and the Afghan people who are both multi-ethnic by nature, actually feel that they are part of one country and that they decide on what type of political system to adopt. We decided on a system that is more centralized, a presidential system. The process that we underwent is somewhat different than the process that the Iraqis have chosen, as far as I know, and we can discuss this further.

Host: I want to talk about security here for a moment, and again very different situations at the same time real fears in Afghanistan this fall at election time that the Taliban would disrupt and attack polling stations and you had relatively uneventful election, and again the insurgence in Iraq are different. What insights can you share with the Iraqi Ambassador about the concerns of security? Is it important that the situation calms down before elections or can you hold them while some parts of the country are chaotic?
Mr. Samad: As I said the process is somewhat different. We have undergone a three-year transitional period. The Iraqis’ interim period is still fresh and new. They are facing a strong insurgency fuelled by outside terrorists… and the interesting part is that these [foreign] terrorists are of the same ilk and of the same kind that we faced in Afghanistan three years ago…the Al-Qaida type, the Taliban type, the extremist radical type that tries to destabilise and use terrorism to accomplish its goals. It’s the same type of terrorism except that it’s a different environment and a different set of conditions.

Host: It still engages local people.
Mr. Samad: In Afghanistan the Taliban and their associates including still the foreign fighters who support them were threatening the elections and they continue till now because we have, for example, parliamentary elections coming up next year and the Taliban are still voicing threats. But we had managed to calm the situation to the point where they would not able to inflict any damage or disrupt the [presidential] election process, but the threat and the danger still exists. Everyday you could face bombings and you could face assassination attempts. Just a few weeks ago we had three U.N. electoral workers that were kidnapped. Fortunately, we were able to release them. These things do exist, this is part of the risk that our nations have to take in order to take bold steps towards democracy.

Host: Well let me ask you Ambassador Samad, about the countries other than Canada that played a role both in troops and election know-how. Do you have any advice for Ambassador Ziad as he tries to convince Canada to make a similar commitment to Iraq?
Mr. Samad: Well in Afghanistan, the International commitment, including Canadian commitment, started with the anti-terrorism coalition fight, if you remember, three years ago in October/November 2001 which was very successful. Then Canada took on a peacekeeping force in Kabul as part of international security assistance force which is made up of about 20 countries. So Iraq’s situation in this regard is a little bit different. We have a U.N. mandate that allows for countries like Canada to have peacekeepers in Afghanistan and Canada now is going to establish what we call a provincial reconstruction team, a P.R.T. in Kandahar in Southern Afghanistan which is another new development in its engagement in Afghanistan aside from all the Canadian assistance coming through CIDA and for development and construction. Canada has also been very involved in the political process from the very on-start, the Bonn process in December of 2001 along with about twenty other countries that are the main donors. So I think that it is important for Ambassador Ziad and his other colleagues to engage countries like Canada that have a very good track record, especially in the development of democracy.

Host: How you mentioned that this was under the umbrella of the U.N. Ambassador Ziad you served as the Kurdish representative to the U.N. for five years before your current posting. What’s your opinion of the U.N.?
Mr. Ziad: Well United Nations is an important organisation for securing in the international sphere to coordinate policies as far as regional and international threats and terrorism. Like any organisation, certain policies, you know, could be successful, certain policies and the implementation could be. It will have shortcomings, so as an organisation it’s essential, but at the same time one has to examine the individual situations and then make assessments of it.

Host: Now your talking, like a good diplomat, the United Nations experience with Iraq in the last couple of years has been a rocky one, has it not, for people like you?
Mr. Ziad: I will not dispute that.

Host: And so what role would you like to see the U.N. play in elections?
Mr. Ziad: Well the U.N. is already in Iraq and it has officials there assisting with the electoral process, but our foreign minister has recently appealed to the United Nations to increase its resources so that this process is successful.

Host: And where are you weary of the U.N.?
Mr. Ziad: Well the usual thing, I think the bureaucracy sometimes it doesn’t implement the will, if you like, of the organization like any organisation whether it is state or international organisation it has its own bureaucracy and sometimes it gets blocked up.

Host: And Ambassador Samad, what role had the U.N. been playing in Afghanistan now, and is it enough for your country.
Mr. Samad: I think the U.N. has played an adequate role from the very start of the long process. It has been a major player along with several other countries that back the U.N. process and support it whether at the U.N. Security Council or on the ground in Afghanistan. As I said, the security forces of ISAF in Afghanistan are under U.N. mandate, the coalition obviously is still a different issue, but still a U.N. supported action. We have one other thing in common with Iraq, for about two years the U.N. Special Representative in Afghanistan was Mr. Lakhdar Brahimi, and he has the experience of Afghanistan behind him now and he has also been involved in Iraq. Right now he’s not on the ground but he was for a while and he is still a special assistant to Kofi Annan. So he can probably bring some new thinking to the U.N. involvement in Iraq, but I think that it’s for the Iraqis and the U.N. basically to decide on how they will form this relationship.

Host: And of course both your governments are closely allied with Washington. Ambassador Ziad President Bush seems determined that the elections will go forward in Iraq next month. What do you need from the Americans in coalition forces to ensure that happens?
Mr. Ziad: Well first the state I think that is the first thing to do in Iraq. This event it will be a milestone in the history nonetheless because all of the eyes of the Middle East and the world is on this event. Frankly, there are the ones that want it to succeed and there are those who don’t wish it success. We think it is doable as the experience of our friends in Afghanistan as the Ambassador has explained that’s a tremendous success really for democratic forces and we want to follow with the success in Iraq.

Host: Ambassador Samad the U.S. forces went into Afghanistan three years ago. How is Washington viewed in your country now?
Mr. Samad: The Afghan people having suffered for a long time and having seen all sorts of different types of unsavory regimes welcomed the Americans as well as the overall international engagement in Afghanistan on the security side as well as the economic and reconstruction sides and the political side. It has to be a package and everybody has to be on-board supporting it in order for it to succeed. So that’s what we wish and hope for so that this international support grows over time. The Canadian involvement and the Canadian engagement is going to be important. As far as Afghanistan is concerned, we welcome the international support and the U.S. support… an overwhelming majority of Afghans welcome it, they do not see it as an occupation, they do not see it as an invasion, they see it as a partnership with the international community for the goal of reviving Afghanistan, for rebuilding Afghanistan, and I think the same applies for Iraq. I think the overwhelming majority of the Iraqi people would like to see peace, security and democracy in their country.

Host: And do you think that view in Afghanistan, the Afghan view of those three years has evolved over those years, a greater sense of democratic goals now than perhaps three year ago?
Mr. Samad: Absolutely, the Afghan people I think have matured over time. You know, we had over eight million Afghans, over 80 percent of eligible voters who went to the polls under the threat of attacks but the Taliban and others. Men and women voted for the first time in their lives. We would like to see that happen in Iraq… it would be a great day for the Iraqis, under the threats from these insurgence and these terrorists, to go to the polls and vote. In Afghanistan on that day people put on their best clothes and distributed sweets. This was their way of showing their appreciation for change.

Host: Ambassador Ziad how much do you think Iraq can learn from Afghanistan’s transition?
Mr. Ziad: I think quite a lot, the main thing is determination to go ahead with that process and then to try and minimize the security environment under which the people can express their free will.

Host: And as you move closer to that Election Day, what’s going through your mind now as an Ottawa diplomat looking at your own country.
Mr. Ziad: Well I’m very excited quite frankly, that this process will proceed and I’m doing my best to enlist the help of Canadians and their Government to that noble cause.

Host: Ambassador Ziad, Ambassador Samad, thank you very much for talking to me today. Howar Ziad is the Iraqi Ambassador to Canada. Omar Samad is the Afghan Ambassador to Canada and both were in our studios in Ottawa.